How to Interview the Ruling Class
Interviewing is a rich and important source of information, tremendously underutilized by the Left.* Businessmen, government officials and functionaries of non-profit organizations have access...
...This of course will be your last question...
...Too often we mystify the people and institutions we are trying to study...
...Before you go into the interview, have a list of questions in mind...
...It is like playing a giant chess game where your opponent has most of the good pieces, but he doesn't know that you are playing and that you want to win...
...Whenever possible do not ask important questions directly if you think that will antagonize the person...
...This approach will force the person to carry his argument to its logical conclusion or extreme in his own terms...
...If you are not a good actor, do not pretend too much...
...RECORDING AND USING THE DATA A. Recording the data...
...It is generally better to present yourself as a graduate student since the person you want to talk to may feel that talking to an undergraduate is unimportant and will not benefit him or his firm...
...Research is a weapon...
...If you do not have time, write down major areas or ideas which will remind you of what was discussed...
...Most often the person will be glad that you have made your inquiries since most institutions like publicity and want to present themselves in the best light possible...
...For additional information, see NACLA, ed...
...This is the most risky of the four strategies...
...These strategies are separate and distinct...
...This approach works for the Cavett show but would destroy most interviews...
...But the men and women you will interview are all too human...
...Unless you are very skillful, the questions you ask can draw a very clear map of what you are really interested in and indicate how much you actually know...
...The primary way for you to know whether the company or institution wants or is willing to have publicity is by going through the New York Times Index, the Wall Street Journal Index and the Business Periodicals Index...
...This list will help you direct the conversation and avoid uncomfor- table pauses while you think up new questions...
...While most of the movie generally presents only the responses, you get a clear idea of what questions were asked and how...
...It is better, however, not to antagonize the person you have talked with...
...Speak with assurance and authority, indicating that you know what you want to find out...
...Otherwise, because of the alienation, you may be sucked into the hierarchy you are examining and into the value system you are pretending to have...
...A. Whom to interview...
...Most people you will talk to do not have a clearly developed, consistent ideological framework...
...Reading the interviews for style -- what questions did the person ask to get the information presented-- will help you to formu-47 late your own questions...
...When you begin a research project, you are in the process of formulating a theoretical framework within which to analyze the material you are gathering...
...Be open, trusting and astonished...
...You will want to be attractive in both appearance and manner to the person you are interviewing...
...A press card, even from a local or college newspaper, is helpful and relatively easy to get, A letter from a friendly college professor saying you are doing research in a course for him or her is useful...
...Most important, choose a strategy which allows you to feel comfortable and relaxed...
...a skirt or fashionable pants outfit for women...
...And then you can ask, "Why haven't sterilization programs been tried as they have been in India...
...This approach is useful in two cases: 1) When you are genuinely unfamiliar with a topic or situation and want to find out as much as possible in a short time...
...Analysing material gathered from high level officials involves interpreting their carefully chosen words, where things may mean far more than they superficially seem to...
...Organizational charts and reference books exist for major institutions (e.g...
...These differences may create problems but they can be turned to your advantage...
...This strategy is useful if you want to study the decision-making process and internal organizational conflicts...
...If you are too conservative the subject will dismiss you as not being part of the "establishment" and merely answer: "Pacification is not enough and schools must be built...
...An excellent documentary about French collaboration with Nazi Germany during World War II, the movie consists of four hours of brilliant interviewing...
...A very important consideration is how high up in the hierarchy you want to go for information...
...They'll ask him questions too...
...This approach requires a fairly good understanding of the topic under investigation...
...A WORD OF CAUTION There are three additional notes of caution: 1. People respond very differently depending on whether the interviewer is a man or a woman...
...Write to him and say that you are a fellow alumnus and would like to talk with him or someone in his office about your project...
...To use the information you gather effectively, you must remember its social role and political purpose...
...Call again, write a letter, send some information to show the individual you are serious and interesting...
...For some strange cultist reason, fellow alumni tend to help each other...
...The clothes you wear must be consistent with the strategy and the situation you choose...
...After maybe half an hour they'll say, 'Well, if you know that that much...' Then they'll start talking...
...It probably will be a two-way conversation...
...Whenever possible, develop a biographical profile of the person before you conduct the interview...
...Corporation officials are more assimilated into their organization and therefore have, or are willing to admit, much less disagreement with stated policies...
...There are four specific strategies which have been most useful...
...But they usually don't ask...
...He is interested in your analysis of the situation to gain a different theoretical perspective...
...Two types of articles are written about a company or institution: press releases and feature articles based on interviews...
...Frequently, individuals you interview will indicate that they wish to have the material remain confidential...
...Underneath their plastic facade are lonely people who often drink more than they should, whose children do not respect them and who want to be flattered and appreciated...
...The person is made to feel defensive...
...Normally there is not sufficient evidence to prove you wrong...
...As in the case of the blind men touching the elephant, there are many inside stories...
...He of course will answer, "We have birth control clinics...
...Sociologists have been doing it to Blacks and poor people for years...
...One technique used by intelligence agents of the ruling class is to voluntarily give you a piece of important classified information to gain your confidence...
...from an examination of the data you are acquiring and an understanding of Marxist theory...
...2) When you know a lot about a topic, have very specific questions and can manipulate the conversation to get answers without the person knowing that you had those questions in mind before the interview...
...The person may then realize that you are not as naive as you pretend to be and stop talking...
...Whenever possible, a contact -- even a friend of a friend-- will help insure that you are given an interview...
...In the beginning of the interview, chat in order to get to know each other and so that you both can relax...
...The suggestions which follow are presented to help you learn how to get that information...
...Generally though, it is better to have done background work on a topic before you conduct an interview...
...They are doing exactly what you are doing only they have been playing this game much longer.46 II...
...For example, if you want to know D, casually say "A...
...and get a straight answer...
...III...
...Just because you have one excellent interview in an institution, do not think that you have the inside story...
...Always try to figure out why a person has told you the informatin he or she has...
...Once he feels relaxed and you have started asking questions, ask if you can take notes...
...You can push them against the wall until they admit that they disagree with a certain policy...
...Thus you have to feel out the person you are talking with to determine his or her point of view...
...There are several types of information which they are willing to share with a credible interviewer...
...Government Organizational Manual, available through the Government Printing Office...
...If you have been to college, go through your current Alumni Directory...
...This strategy requires a tremendous amount of general understanding of a subject and access to specific new information...
...How to introduce yourself to the person being interviewed so that your political orientation remains confidential will be discussed below...
...Find someone in the particular institution you are interested in studying...
...If you think there is some information which he might not want publicized, ask if it is okay to write it down...
...If you want to know about sterilization programs you can ask, "What is being done to decrease the rate of population growth...
...B. Using the data...
...This strategy can successfully be used with government officials because of the ambivalence this group tends to feel about its work...
...2. Different people in any given institution have different views about what is going on and what should go on...
...Never underestimate their interest in our analysis...
...The outer office is filled with information and with leads for beginning the conversation with the person you are interviewing...
...Immediately after the interview, whether you have taken notes or not, write down as much as you can remember...
...A. Appearance...
...It is best to present yourself as someone who, with a little stretch of the imagination, you might be...
...A variation of this strategy is useful when talking with government officials who do not really believe the positions they are forced to take...
...For example, in talking with USAID officials, do not ask: "Why are you spending money to train police to kill guerrillas when so many people are illiterate and the money could be used for schools...
...If he refuses, you might have found out some interesting material (which of course you will remember since you have focused in on it...
...If the person to be interviewed asks, one sheet of stationery is usually sufficient proof that you are who you say you are...
...But interviewing may also be alienating...
...He'll say, 'Your market share is suchand-such.' At first, they may say, 'You're speaking nonsense.' He'll persist, and they'll begin to realize he does know a great deal about them...
...D. Guarded Honesty...
...B. Waiting in the outer office...
...To remain effective, the interviewer must be part of a larger movement, preferably an organization, where the work has a political purpose...
...These include: the most up-to-date material available, answers to specific questions, clarification of apparent inconsistencies in your analysis, information about the decision making process and human interest material...
...If research is gathered effectively and used politically, the tables will be turned and the rulers will be left with only the pawns to play with...
...You are more likely to get an interview if you contact a specific person by name with a request to talk to him about a specific, limited topic...
...In talking with a person in an establishment hierarchy, take a position slightly more conservative than his or hers...
...A. Dialectic...
...2) Watch the Dick Cavett show...
...Now, the analyst will call on the corporation's executives...
...It is our feeling that friends should be protected and their wishes respected...
...After this type of question you are in a good position to ask: "How much is spent to train police...
...This type of question is particularly useful if you are interested in how the person responds...
...the type of material you want to gather), how much you know about the subject you are studying, and how good an actor you are...
...Most likely he will be flattered...
...They don't want to look like fools or liars...
...The primary consideration to weigh is the political impact of publication versus the extent to which chan- nels of communication will be cut off in the future...
...They may do so for two reasons: 1) you have information in which they are interested, either about a competitor who you have already interviewed or about their area in general, or, 2) they feel you will be able to fill in the missing pieces without your help and would like it put in their own words, rather than yours...
...If the material sits in some dusty file cabinet or cloistered away with an isolated researcher, it remains powerless...
...As a result you may only get one chance to speak to the person you are interviewing...
...Few people among the ruling class and their agents fall into that category...
...At times you are forced to make insipid conversation, to play degrading games and to smile when what you hear is filling you with rage...
...It is assumed that for the first three of these strategies the person being interviewed does not know your real political orientation or why you want the information...
...The strategy depends on the purpose of the interview (i.e...
...to see what is their most sophisticated, stated strategy...
...At least try to know which division or branch of the hierarchy you want to talk with...
...Alumni are usually listed by business address...
...That work will help you decide who to talk to in any given institution and what information is not available elsewhere...
...Approach the question indirectly, try to figure out what other combination of questions will give you the same answer, or try to make the conversation lead "naturally" to that question...
...Remember, what you are doing is perfectly legal...
...The logic you use should be a vehicle to extend his thinking in his terms and to get more of the information which makes up his theoretical framework: The logic you use should not be a presentation of your own framework...
...knowing that his response of course will be "B...
...C. Aggressive...
...Forbes magazine (January 15, 1971) reports a description of this strategy...
...People are much more cautious about what they say if every word is recorded...
...The person you are interviewing knows your political orientation and is interested in what specific information you have and the limits of your knowledge...
...This will enable you to ask questions which are otherwise off limits...
...and then hope that he will go on to show how civic action is tied in with military pacification...
...At informal gatherings it is better if the person does not think that you are interviewing him or her but thinks that you are having a conversation...
...If the interview is limited to a phone conversation, there is a whole host of other ways of presenting yourself: an employer checking on a specific individual, a private detective, a researcher for a corporation, or for a stockbroker who is developing a profile of a company to advise clients on whether to invest in that firm...
...If you take a position which is slightly more liberal than his, the person tends to become defensive, run into logical deadends, get angry and stop talking...
...Talking with a high level official (directors and officers) is useful 1) to answer a specific question which a lower official may not know or may not be at liberty to answer, and 2) to see how he responds to questions, i.e...
...His technique for keeping a conversation going, his "charm" and his discipline of doing background research are positive techniques to learn from watching his show.48 3) Practice by conducting interviews where you don't really care about the results...
...Remember, if you take notes it is easier for him to know what information you consider important...
...C. How to present yourself...
...Begin by asking general questions in the area you want to know about...
...The framework you develop comes from an examination of your political goals and the audience you want to reach...
...The information which follows is primarily for office interviews...
...This style of questioning will make explicit his implicit assumptions...
...You can then naturally say, "C...
...Telephone calls are the best way, People are more likely to bury letters...
...Most important, be flexible, try new things and have a good time...
...Reading other people's interviews for content will help you know the extent of publicity the company will allow...
...For example, if the person you are interviewing says, "We have military civic action to help develop the countryside," you should then naively ask, "Wouldn't these programs be most useful in areas where there is guerrilla activity...
...If, for example, you are accused of not really having the conservative political orientation you claim to have, deny the accusation...
...This way you will feel most comfortable and be most believable...
...There can be some variance from question to question in the difference between your position and the position of the person you talk to, but the variation should be within a rather narrow limit...
...If a company does not want publicity, it is best to present yourself as a graduate student who is writing a confidential thesis which no one but your advisor will see...
...There are four main areas to consider in conducting an interview: (I) choosing a strategy, (II) setting up the interview, (III) conducting the interview and (IV recording and using the data...
...Interviewing is a rich and important source of information, tremendously underutilized by the Left.* Businessmen, government officials and functionaries of non-profit organizations have access to large quantities of previously untapped material...
...Knowing the background of the person as well as he does, Cavett asks questions which are embarrasing to the subject but appear to the audience to be harmless...
...He is an example of what not to do...
...You should not, for example, wear a chic outfit and use the naive approach...
...They may then explain why they think the decision was made to adopt that policy, who argued for it and why they think it is the wrong policy...
...One interview with the relative of Prime Minister Laval is particularly useful for learning good techniques...
...Go to the places which are open to you, where the people you want to interview meet for business and social reasons: the Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers, business association meetings, conferences and conventions...
...If you have a few specific questions, sometimes the entire interview can be conducted by telephone...
...There are several other suggestions which will help you learn how to conduct an interview...
...His staff does a lot of background research on each of the people who come on the show...
...The importance of this approach is not only in the specific questions you ask but in your ability to establish yourself in a general position relative to the person being interviewed...
...The best people to interview are.librarians, secretaries, authors of newspaper articles, public relations men (who are hired specifically to answer your questions), and of course, the functionaries in the hierarchy...
...Essentially you tell the person, in a gentle way, how much you know about them and ask them to fill in the missing pieces...
...I. CHOOSING A STRATEGY The purpose of an interview is to gather information, not to politicize people...
...Generally, the lower the official, the better the information you will get...
...Your position and political orientation may have to change slightly as you get to know their positions better in order to maintain a dialogue...
...Data has no meaning without a framework...
...As Lenin said, "There is no problem a Bolshevik cannot solve...
...1) See the movie The Sorrow and the Pity, by Marcel Ophuls...
...SETTING UP THE INTERVIEW To get the most out of an interview, hundreds of hours of background research are required...
...A lower official is not tied into the system as firmly as is an older, more important official...
...Don't give up easily and don't take it personally...
...If you are doing a series of interviews with people in the same institution or in organizations which communicate with each other, be very careful to use the same strategy throughout...
...He won't ask general questions like 'What is your market share...
...Look at the magazines they have, watch how people relate to each other, try to get a rough idea of the number of people doing which jobs, see how the office is decorated, talk to the secretary or receptionist and indirectly ask non-controversial questions about the office, the company and her boss...
...This will demonstrate your good faith...
...As a result, we become reluctant to contact an individual or we become nervous before an interview...
...You can question what a person says if you think he is lying or the information is incorrect, but never do it in a way that shows that you know he is wrong...
...The agent then sits back and watches where your questions go to see what you are interested in and what you already know...
...C. The interview...
...Try to direct the conversation, primarily using only the information you have been given during the interview to focus in on a topic The subject provides the information, you provide the logic...
...Instead ask: "Why isn't more money spent to train police or for military civic action to pacify areas so that people will be able to go45 to school...
...3. Never admit what you do not want to...
...If possible try to leave an opening for future contact: borrow something, ask for an address, or ask if you could talk again if you have more questions...
...Short or moderately long hair and a jacket and tie for men...
...In deciding on a way to present yourself, keep in mind how the person and institution being interviewed will respond to publicity...
...Most people like to talk about themselves and their work, especially to people who are interesting, but don't usually get the chance...
...and from an integration of theory and practice...
...Never think that because you have found out good information using this strategy that you are pulling the wool over their eyes...
...Do not feel that you are imposing on the person whom you are interviewing...
...As the framework becomes more clearly developed, the same information takes on new meaning and importance...
...Have a few filler questions you can ask, either to intersperse between sensitive questions or to give you a few minutes to think about your next probe while he rambles on...
...Interviewing can be fun...
...D. Other suggestions...
...Therefore the strategy you should use to conduct the interview has little direct connection with your political orientation...
...Sometimes they distort information, exaggerate or lie...
...CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW Interviews can be conducted anywhere: at a party, sitting next to someone on a plane, at a sports event or in an office...
...Information about your interviews will travel and you will be caught if you are inconsistent...
...The disadvantage with these ways of presenting yourself is that it is very easy for a person to check on your credentials...
...Set yourself goals of specific information you want to find out, and try to see the best ways to get it...
...B. How to set up the interview...
...and find out if the answer is D. A concrete example will help...
...B. Naive...
...Regardless of whether he says it is okay or not to write down the material, you have shown your concern for his interests...
...If the information is not eventually used to change the existing power relations in capitalist society, it is wasted...
...If he is reluctant, tell him immediately that the notes are not important...
...A college student who is writing a paper or doing research for a professor, a graduate student who is working on a thesis or trying to find a topic, a representative of a concerned citizens group, a freelance reporter who might be commissioned to write a specific article if enough material exists, a reporter from a college paper, or someone who is applying for a job are all possibilities...
...Taping is only useful for special interviews...
...As soon as you can, type up everything you can remember, EVEN WHAT SEEMS UNIMPORTANT...
...lie will be willing to tell you a few things which you could not find in any other way, but in exchange he wants to know what you think...
...4) Role play with friends, learn from each others' mistakes and share ideas about which techniques have worked and which have not...
...If you are denied an interview, PUSH...
...Ten Theses on Power Structure Research" in NACLA Research Methodology Guide...
...If you think you will not want to talk again to this person or to anyone he talks to, and there is no other way to get the information, you can ask one inflammable or controversial question...
...Credentials help but are not necessary...
Vol. 7 • March 1973 • No. 3
